Curse

Medion · Oct 03, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Ok, basically, this is the first season my guild is quite often to be found on the guildladder. `
Lightning Strikes Twice - Ladder

As you can see, we lose more than we win. Winning against teams like henchway is no problem for us, and I'm quite sure that any team with less than 1000 rating can be beaten by us. We can get some quite good matches mostly against ~rank 600-1000 and once in a while we beat a better team ~ rank 400.
I'm not happy with consistency though, so what would you advise my guild to watch as we enter this part of the ladder? What should we watch, what's different than/more important to do now than in the 1000+. I know for most of you our rank might be low, but we are trying to improve and any help we can get would be appreciated.
Thank you

CrispyCritter · Oct 03, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Here are some suggestions:

1) Get a regular GvG team, and set regular times to play.

2) Have alternates available that you are comfortable inviting to GvG, whether they be on your friends list or in your alliance.

3) Have players choose not more than a couple professions, and have them play those professions consistently. Don't take somebody who's used to playing a warrior and simply throw him on a monk, or vice versa. Let people specialize in their roles.

4) Get a good build. If you don't know how to design a good guild, watch observer mode. Pick a build you like and copy it, skill for skill. If you want, you're welcome to copy our build. The guild name is Save the Dolyaks and we're in the top 100. Stick with a build until you get good with it. If you constantly switch builds, you will constantly lose, since there is a learning curve for every build out there.

5) Learn the maps. Being familiar with the maps will help a lot. Learn how to bodyblock catapults, and use various maps to your advantage. Be sure you know how to split on maps that may require it, and can win in a straight 7v7 fight for maps that require that. Don't play a split build on Burning, and don't play a 7v7 pressure build on Frozen. Get a home map that suits your build and play style.

6) Get a good match caller, or two if you're playing a split build. This person should have a good grasp of the game, and should be able to make decisions quickly under pressure. When this person makes a decision, everyone should listen and should immediately execute whatever the caller says to do. Make sure to communicate relevant information, but don't be constantly shouting over vent.

7) Get a good vent server. If you have a vent server that constantly lags, this is bad. Make sure everyone in the GvG group is on vent, and expect most people to have mics and to use them. You could use TS, but I prefer vent, as it generally seems to have less lag.

8) Familiarize yourself with GvG builds. You should be able to recognize most builds within about 10 seconds of seeing them at the stand. Learn how to deal with pressure, spike, and split, and have a plan to counter every common build.

9) Play to your build. If you are playing a pressure build, play agressively and don't pull back until you have to. If you are playing control, i.e. hexes or a more defensive build, learn to play defensively. If you are playing spike, learn to use movement control, i.e. snares and speed boosts, as you can expect a lot of teams to split against you. If you are playing AGAINST a spike, learn to be disruptive, because if you don't force them to split or disrupt their spike, you will probably lose.

10) Don't get upset about losing. You will lose, it happens, deal with it. After you lose, take a few minutes to talk about what you did wrong, figure out what to do next time you're in a similar situation, and go back in. If you get upset and switch builds every time you lose, you won't get very far, so learn to see losses as an opportunity to improve.

There's probably more, and a good way to learn is by simply watching observer mode.

Arich Valtrahn · Oct 03, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Critter pretty much nailed it. Those are all excellent points and a check list for improving your play.

Im in a similar guild to the OP - we win/lose at about a 50/50 ratio.

-Loki- · Oct 04, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrispyCritter

10) Don't get upset about losing. You will lose, it happens, deal with it. After you lose, take a few minutes to talk about what you did wrong, figure out what to do next time you're in a similar situation, and go back in. If you get upset and switch builds every time you lose, you won't get very far, so learn to see losses as an opportunity to improve.

Biggest issue I have ever seen in the guilds I have been in. Either people get the shits after a loss and scatter, meaning you can't continue to play or even discuss what you did wrong (you never learn), act as if you didn't do anything wrong and it was just luck the enemy team won (this doesn't happen, and you still don't learn) or change builds because you think the one you are using is crap (very bad idea, you build crash).

just call me jimmy · Oct 04, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Well wrote Critter. That should get posted on the GW website great guide for new teams.
Medion, 1 thing I will add to what people have said. As the main strategy caller for the guild I am in. Watching the matches and commentary on the GW Versus website was a fantastic help to myself and guildmates. Ty to JR for pointing me to them.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3030332
The Commentary is from some of the best GVG players GW has to offer. They give great insights, strategic tips and tricks. Just awesome!!

Hope you get a chance to watch some of them, and Good Luck to you and your Guild

shardfenix · Oct 05, 2006, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Play, play, play, play, play.
The more you play, the more you learn, and the better you get. The top guilds seem so good because they gvg 10 times a day or more.

The best advice I could give is to get a core group of 8 players with maybe 1 sub, get a build that you think works, and stick to those people and that build. Even if it's not the best build in the world, a team that knows how to play it can do very very well.

If you have trouble with part of the build, tweak it a little bit and run a few battles.

Have fun this season, and best of luck to LST.

Vindexus · Oct 05, 2006, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Message every guild that beats you and ask them how to improve. Most guilds will feel their ePeen inflate so much that they will offer legitimate help. And hell, some of them are just nice guys.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 05, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vindexus

Message every guild that beats you and ask them how to improve. Most guilds will feel their ePeen inflate so much that they will offer legitimate help. And hell, some of them are just nice guys.

QFT. LOL was very helpful with the guild I guested with, and hopefully they learned a few things. Additionally, just ask people on the forums that you think are good players to help you out. Everyone wants a huge e-peen, so they're likely to help.

romO · Oct 05, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Everyone wants a huge e-peen, so they're likely to help.

Also, some people just want newer players to go through the same enjoyable and satisfying growing experiences that they went through in order to fuel a fresh wave of competitive fervor and new challenges on the ladder. Sooo they're likely to help as well.

DocHollidae · Oct 06, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

The tips Critter gave were great. In my experience playing guilds ranked in that area the main problems I almost always see are 1) Questionable/PVE skill bars, 2) Lack of understanding of GvG fundamentals/mechanics 3) Lack of tactics. 4) Positioning

Obviously everyone has to start somewhere and everyone takes different paths to get where they want. A good start is watching obs mode. However it's important to be observing the right things. Don't follow around just one profession, because one individual isn't going to win a match for a guild. Watch how the guild as a whole work as a team. Evil in their prime was best at this imo. Also while watching guilds' builds are important, but make sure to watch their positioning as well.

After the matches you do play against higer ranked guilds, PM one of their players and ask them what they thought. More often than not they'll throw their two cents in or even engage in a discussion. My guild has had a fair amount of success on the ladder and often after matches against top 20 guilds, I'll PM one of their players to ask them what we did wrong, or what we did right. In my experience several MH players have always been helpful as well as Rifts' leader, Morty. I haven't spoken to Tommy Equals from QQ personally, but from what I've seen from his posts in these forums he seems like he'd be willing to help when he can as well.

Imo the most important factor when getting into higher level play is experience. Knowing how to react in certain situations or how to counter a certain build is key to success. The next thing would probably be communication. Knowing when your monks are low on energy, when a key target is killed, split group progess checks, etc. Information like that allows for the team to better prepare for situations so they can adjust accordingly.

desolo · Oct 08, 2006, 10:47 AM // 10:47

romo, how can i be as cool as you?

Thom Bangalter · Oct 09, 2006, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by romO

Also, some people just want newer players to go through the same enjoyable and satisfying growing experiences that they went through in order to fuel a fresh wave of competitive fervor and new challenges on the ladder. Sooo they're likely to help as well.

I love it when Tommy guests.

Also, to be as cool as him, I think you just sign up at teamquitters and then eventually they bestow upon you a sex bomb, a la Tom Jones.

Manfred · Oct 10, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Sex bomb sex bomb, you're my sex bomb?

Anyhow, I'd definitely say getting a core of 10-16 people and just gvging for a few weeks with a decent build is the most traditional way of improving. I mean, do the debriefs, practics and obsing as well, but just gvging a lot is, in my opinion, most key of all, as long as you learn from mistakes.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 10, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Core teams are very important.

Also the not mixing up professions between the core players is important.

sir lockt · Oct 13, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Thnx alot everybody for some very good tips. We play a lot last season...over 50 matches now... and our scoring is fine as well...we lose often 12 points, while we win 15-20...but we just lose a bit to much...call it bad luck or bad build... but you drop of the ladder like that...

any more advice for a rising guild

(at least I hope that is the general direction

)